Tuesday, November 21, 2006

Another explanation by request

Yup I doin' it again, on the other hand I really don't mind and have no problem answering any of these questions (hint, send me questions).
http://perturbedmom.blogspot.com/ asked why men don't feel comfortable walking home their female friend, alone especially friday night after the shabbos meal.
OK a couple of things, first most men do not feel at ease with the opposite sex. It takes a while to understand how to relate, how friendly they should be, if comments made will be taken at face value (as you women are not wont to do, what?, women tend to read into things more than men)Men, normal guys, who are happily married, don't want the woman to feel that even if he is friendly there is absolutely no emotional attachment meant. Women make friends and hug and kiss and develop a kind of endearment with friends - men don't.Men can bash each others brains in but 3 minutes later share a beer, with no emotional baggage.I love my wife and (both my male and) female kids. I even love my sisters and mom to a lesser degree. But do I love my buddies, no way.
Second issue "there is no such a thing as a platonic relationship"and as "there is no such a thing as a platonic relationship"How should a guy treat the woman while walking her home?Conversation would be distant, making her uncomfortable. Therefore the guy as perceived as a jerk, why would he wanna put him self in that position.On the other hand even if she doesn't take it as such, the guy will feel flirty, if he acts friendly, thereby infringing on the faithfulness to his wife. Because in real life 'there is no such a thing as a platonic relationship". If you think otherwise, as I'm sure lots of you do, you have the right to fool yourselves.
Any man who will admit to the truth will agree to this.
Better yet ask any accepted Jewish spiritual leader (Rabbi mark/stephen etc, need not apply)
and they will agree to this concept.
Last note, friday night/shobbos eve, is a special time for couples, the warm glow, residual of the chicken soup, is likely to spill over into the bedroom. Why would a guy (or his wife) want to walk and talk with others much less a female.

Respectfully I await the wrath, compliments accepted of course ;)

28 comments:

socialworker/frustrated mom said...

Interesting.

Y.Y. said...

Second issue "there is no such a thing as a platonic relationship"and as "there is no such a thing as a platonic relationship"

i strongly disagree

Chaim Chusid said...

Yingerman,

Viyoohavtoo lirayachoo k'moychoo?

There's love, and then there's love.

Chaim

yingerman said...

YY
As usual the 'hot chanie' lover I really respect your views!

chaim
hummmmm not the same right!

chaverah said...

I strongly disagree. I beleive that for the most that a guy and girl can be completly platnonic. Perhaps I am "fooling" myself however thats the way i feel.

yingerman said...

Chavera
As from a womans view, I can see your point.
But from the male side of things, no way no how, If a guy talks to you, more than 3 sentences, he wants something more than directions. It's just the way males are programmed.
Even YY would agree.

flör said...

..How should a guy treat the woman .. Conversation would be distant, making her uncomfortable. Therefore the guy as perceived as a jerk...even if she doesn't take it as such, the guy will feel flirty, if he acts friendly, thereby infringing on the faithfulness to his wife.


From a female pov, goes [exactly] the opposite way too..:)

yingerman said...

Thank you flor
Does this mean you agree?

Y.Y. said...

i dont agree
i see so many guys who have female friends and it stays like that just friends

anonym00kie said...

maybe it stays that way cuz theyve made a conscious decision to keep it "platonic", but it doenst mean their feelings or thoughts are platonic..

and what single girls wants a married man to walk them home... unless..
are you tlaknig about married men or single men??

1beautiful-stranger said...

I agree with you that platonic relationships "does not" exist.... but..."only" in the heimishe world. and that is because, regardless of what ppls sincere intentions are, everything will always be evolving around sex and pervertedness. one's actions will "always"...sadly, be interpreted in that way.
but to the rest of the world, platonic relationships are VERY "common" and "normal"!

anonym00kie said...

1beautiful stranger, doesnt sound like uve been in the secular world very long...
or at least i dont knwo what secular world.. but that one im from is way more obsessed about sex.. the difference is that there its expected and if you dont agree and dont want it.. ure stuck with it!
judaism at least gives you a choice..

anonym00kie said...

and btw, the only reason it may seem less obvious in the secular world, its because everyone is so desensitized to it, and so what would be considered "inapropriate" or "sexual" is perfectly normal and fine in the secular world. ever heard of the expression 'freinds with benefit' well thats more and more the norm in the secular world - theres no more intimacy, specialness attached to the act.. its just an activity u do with your friends - like going to the movies.

1beautiful-stranger said...

anonymookie:
I did not say the secular world isnt obsessed with sex and perveredness, what i said was, that platonic relationships is "accepted" and widly practiced.
as opposed to the heimish community, if such a relationship would be going on between a man and women...man, all i can say is, theyd be thrown out of the community.

anonym00kie said...

how do u know how platonic they are? the frum community is against platonic relationships because it doesnt beleive that such things can exist (at least not long term).. of course we know men and women can be friends, hang out.. but if we're honest, we also know what kind of thoughts, words and deeds it leads to. the secular world plays dumb and keeps saying its possible - and the frum community is honest and admits its not possible to keep things purely platonic.
of course there are exceptions, but a value system cant be built on exceptions.

yingerman said...

Thanx anoonymookie
Those who are grumpy stay that way, until they have enough reason to wanna change!

1Bstranger
I cannot accept your views as you are a female, as I said, females are more likely to have a platonic relationship. Males CANNOT. Ask a man any man who will be 'man' enough to be honest.
A man even if you know him for years will always try to sneak a peek when your vulnerable. Right YY?

Anonymous said...

Smart man

And yes Im always horny

kasamba said...

I have to agree in the sense that why would someone put energy in a relationship that would only detract from Sholom Bayis?

Y.Y. said...

why you so obsessed with me?

previous anon said...

Hehehe
YY everybody in blogland nows your views on women, but you.

Shpitzle Shtrimpkind said...

Yingerman,
I know you’re really trying to be open-minded so you’re open to the thoughts that the opposite gender can handle platonic relationships better than men, but in truth, who says you can judge for all men because you’re a man?
What I’m saying is, if you can judge for all men by a general observation, you can judge for all of us.

The strong division between men and women in our circles simply heightens the sexual presence in a conversation between men and women. Not that I believe that platonic exists at all, but I think that it is even less possible in our circles.

I’m not sure how ‘chassidish’ you are, but I can’t imagine ever even being presented with such a dilemma.

Great topics. Keep ‘em comin’…

The Anti-Semite said...

Lots of truth and lots of broad generalizations. Believe me, when my best friend died in Lebanon, I honestly didn't know how my life would go on. We were a very tightly knit bunch, and are still pretty much in touch, 15 years after YHS, scattered around the world, families etc.

As for the Platonic thing - I think most of your readers don't understand what it is.

All the best.

1beautiful-stranger said...

yingerman:
Ask a man any man who will be 'man' enough to be honest.
A man even if you know him for years will always try to sneak a peek when your vulnerable.

hmmm......have you wanted to "screw" every women youve ever been acquainted with/ or freinds with in the past?? lol
im sorry..no offense.. but thats what I extracted from your statement
(again..according to what I read)

Shpitzle Shtrimpkind said...

Just popped in... Beautiful Stranger,
The fact that we want to be 'cute' in the eyes of the opposite sex doesn't suggest we wanna fall into bed with them yet.
I give yingerman credit for saying things that others like to deny exist.

BagelUndertheCouch said...

i liken this to billy crystal's conversation with meg ryan in "when harry met sally." accordng to him, men and women can't be friends, because the sex part always gets in the way. not that a person such as yourself would have this problem and not that i have it either, but....gah...

anyway...what i'm trying to say is that, as a woman, i completely understand what you're saying.

yingerman said...

lady D
thank you for the comp. And uh...thanx for that juicy tidbit, I think.

Kasamba
I always love another vote, thanx.

Prev anon
The truth is out there.

Shpitzle
Yes, I'm sure our closed circles make it more awkward, but even in the real world, it always lies just beneath.

The AS
Well now I would say I dont understand, a good buddy of mine died when we were teens. When I say good, I mean not just a friend, he was my chavrusa, you several years, we completed some serious learning together.
I still think about him, and I still go to his grave every now and then.

Beaut
well now screw and look is not the same thing you know. A buddy of mine told me that him and his wife have an agreement about the opposite gender. Sorta like the expensive gift shop, 'you can look but you can't touch.
Frum jews, the real ones anyway, do their best not to look. But I think it's sorta programmed into males. There are plenty of ehrlicha guys I know who have sufficient self control, and dont look, usually.

Bagel
Thank you, it seems that even those who grew up in a coed enviroment, understand, what some of us, as shomer torah umitzvos, seem do have difficulties with.

David_on_the_Lake said...

we're not talking about a leisurely stroll...
we;re talking about doing a chessed..for a woman that doesnt want to walk alone.

Tech guy said...

Alone?
Oh but with someone elses husband is better?
If the alone feeling gets better with anothers spouse, then all 3 are in big trouble.
Let her walk with her friend and the hubby can tag along, as an extra wheel.