- My "Plony" went to a rebbe (deceased) with a kvitel. My "Plony" has a bunch of kids one of whom is not currently married in their 30s. Inadvertently he left out that child, a female who the rebbe had never met. The rebbe scans the list and says with a frown 'didn't you leave one out?' there was no way for him to know this, short of some sorta divine inspiration.
- My "PlonyII" had an issue with a "Ben Esav" regarding a lawsuit over some property. After conferring with a lawyer he understood that his legal position didn't look to good, so off he went for a broche at a rebbe (still alive at this writing). The rebbe listens and then closes his eyes. After a moment he opens his eyes and asks by my granddad for the court date. Hearing the date (sometime in Adar) the rebbe blessed my "PlonyII" and told him not to worry. Mr "Ben Esav" was killed by a car 3 days before the case.
- My "PlonyIII" worked at several jobs before the one he is at now, sometimes doing just OK. After certain bumps in the road he decides to buy a business. He find something he can do and goes to the Rebbe(deceased) for a broche. The business is old and not doing well but my "PlonyIII" insists that the rebbe promises him it's going to succeed. He's doing very well and works maybe 30 hours a week.
- Spousy's "Plonet" was told by her obstetrician it the beginning of her 2nd trimester that her baby in-utero had a birth defect and at best would be slow. As observant Jews they couldn't abort the baby. Her Hubby went to his Rebbe (alive and kicking) who promises him that the baby will be fine but to please travel to Rabbi X to get his broche. She carried the baby to term filled with worry. The baby is B"H fine, a bit short maybe.
- Last night I went to the ?????? ????? Rebbe visiting from Yerushalayim. I have never been to him before. He looked at my kvitel and asked 2 things that are the exact priorities in my life now. Blew me away.
More?
Do you really need a shopping list, to make you believe in a Supreme Being?
Go talk to someone with numbers tattooed on their arms, or someone that lived though 9/11 in NYC, that should be enough. Those who have wool over their eyes should know that wool makes me itch.
24 comments:
well i have to agree but you gotta think that some rebbehs get lucky 1% of the time and that 1% become farcishifed in him
yingerman
is that the best you can come up with?
sounds like youre hearing second hand stories from people who desperately wanted these rebbe visits to be true.
so first of all, you dont know what details of the stories they left out.
second of all, the obgyn story could really be a story of a bad obgyn.
the parnassah story could be a story of someone who knows how to run a business
the missing daughter story could be a story of a rebbe asking bunch of questions and if he gets one right the person coming will forget all the misses. this is standard fare for charlatan mind readers etc.
youre priority story is a little hard to decipher, since you dont say whats on the kvitel and wether you told anyone about your priorities in life.
i wonder if he figured out that you have a yetzer hara for hot chanies and blog about it.
why werent you afraid he would?
forgot the kill the ben esav.
this one is scary, because the ben esav was right, and he was still killed.
wow, no wonder chassidim say far gelt meg min, even a brocho for someone to die! what a religion!
yingerman
tell your rebbes that the amazing randi is offering 1 million dollars for them to prove under a scientific experiment that they have any power whatsoever.
1 million dollars!
how can you pass that up.
http://www.randi.org/
would any of us have any free choice left if it was proven 100%?
but should any of us believe in charlatans because we dont understand that they are faking it?
you need to be skeptical of claims of supernatural, otherwise, you could just as easily be fooled by a palm reader.
finally, your whole point is ridiculous because there have been many cases of people supposedly seeing miracles. for example the golem (which never really happened) or tanaim with super xray vision that everyone knew about.
if these things happened wouldnt that fly in the face of your argument that knowing something 100% takes away bechirah?
in fact, there should be no outright miracles ever.
but you dont believe that do you?
and this yingerman started his post by saying he personally witnessed or has first hand knowledge of 5 AMAZING MIRACLES.
which is it, where they miracles, or where they not?
hum... like the names, plone, ben esav, plonet, very cute. The stories can be looked at in 2 ways. sometimes they get lucky and sometimes its a miracle. I am torn.
I agree that these particular stories one can explain (or wish)away;however there are too many similar stories (mostly about the dead)to disregard them all.
people attribute many things to the dead.
who can contradict them.
so you have many stories because they cant be contradicted.
and thats cited as proof that it must be true?
Truth is stranger than fiction, and I feel much more comfortable believing that there is a God pulling our legs, rather than attributing all the flukes in my life to mere coincidence. I'd like to think I'm above coincidence.
OK I hear you.
Let me explain.
When I refer to a dead rabbi, its just that the rabbi is no longer here but the receipient of the brocho is!
And no the stories are not second hand, I know these people. The stories happened to people I know for years, does that make it second hand.
For example the OBYGN is a doc at NYU big n' famous. Now I know that nothing for %100 percent, but plonet was freaking out when the doc told her. I have held the baby, a little girl, very cute and healthy.
The parnasah guy did 4 businesses before the present one, so right after going to the rebbe, he overnight developed an excellent business acumen? WOW a miracle.
Missing daughter was the first question and no there is no way a regular human can see from a kvitel whats missing or on your mind.
I take it you haven't done a kvitle in a while there is nothing on a kvittle but a list of names. At the end the kvittle writer will add a "may they be healthy" in hebrew.
That's it, no secret code or notes.
Noe about the ben aisav, there was no request for death anywhere, just due to the lawyer being pessimistic, the plony wanted a broche. The rabbi just told him not to worry, it'll be B"H OK.
The rabbi didn't say, dont worry i'll get one of my boys to take care of it.
BTW any rabbi worth his salt would tell Randy in a polite way to shove it up.
Regarding bechira, if there was no doubt that, in fact this was a true blow-your-mind miracle, then my bechira would be nil, as mookie said.
Just like Hashem said "let us make man" as opposed to 'I will make man', just to give the apikores a foothold. Chaverah used the word 'torn'she is axactly right, all these stories have room for a doubt, if you need it.
After all, if there IS a G-d, I can't do as I please anymore.
You didn't address the 9/11 or holocaust survivors comment, why?
Do you know any?
Its all very well to sneer contemptuously and clobber at the power of that which you have not experienced. But just wait until its up in your face... all your cynicism just melts away... just melts away..Mine did.
there are no athiests in foxholes
heres to hoping your road of life never hits a foxhole
"so right after going to the rebbe"
so this guy never went to a rebbe before?
if not, maybe the guy was motivated by the brocho. like some people get from tony robbins.
re holocaust survivors.
and what about 6 million who did not?
it doesnt matter wether you know people for years. if people want to believe in miracles, they will make the incident sound miraculous.
re 9/11. i was there. so?
im not saying there isnt a god. im saying a rebbe has no power. nada.
its only what you go in with.
if you go in wanting a miracle, you will come out making ANYTHING he says come true.
its self fulfilling.
and anyone who doesnt get the brocho work, is blamed for the failure. Funny how that works.
of course you assume that knowing god will ruin your free will.
funny, how it doesnt do that to the supposedly miracle working rebbe himself.
so what is it? does it or does it not ruin your free will?
oy, nissim nissim nissim,
aleh hut gezein,
d'rebbe hut g'essin a katchke,
un upg'eluzt di beina.
ever hear that song?
"im saying a rebbe has no power. nada."
TRUE
I'll say it again TRUE!
The rebbe just gives a broche, no more no less.
The tiferes shlomo discusses that the fruitition of a broche depends on the believer more than the giver.
And the tiferes shlomo was a known chasidic miracle working rebbe.
This is the way I see it. A miracle is just a small reminder that, maybe just maybe there is a G-d who thinks about you.
Even if I saw a huge full blown kriyas yam suf, would that be enough? Ask the dor hamidbor.
Us in this late stage of the game, we don't get biggies, just a little nudge of support.
(I don't usually post anonymously, but will because of the nature of the story.)
My wife asked her brother to get a brocha from the Amshinover Rebbe (EY) that she become pregnant. He went and asked him, and the Rebbe said, "Zi trogt einer." We found out about a week later that he was right.
the idea that the brocho depends on the believer is so convinenient.
dont you see, this way when it doesnt work, you simply blame yourself. If only i believed more.
this is win win for the rebbe. no matter what he says, he will be looked at as having the power to provide something special.
and you also forstall any serious investigation of wether one rebbe is more successful than another. if youre testing the rebbe, then you dont believe, so it wont work.
do you see the circle of logic here?
anonymous. I think i addressed this before. Would you agree that there are many, many times he says stuff and NOTHING happens (regardless of why).
would you also agree that people who feel the brocho worked will TALK about it. people who dont feel it worked will NOT (for the very reason i explain above).
think about that, and figure out why things seem they way they are.
Theres a story with the Gorlitze Rebbe..someone came to him with a sefer of "Mofsim" from his rebbe...the Gorlitze said..yes but you can fill a whole room with the things that didnt work..
I once heard from my Rebbe (Belz) one is not allowed to be nispoel by mofsim..and certainly one shold never choose a Rebbe based on that criterea. He said it says in the Torah (in the shira)...Vayar Yisroel es hayad hagedola...but thats not enough to follow Moshe..then it says Vayiru ho'um es hashem..and THEN VaYaaminu Bahashem uv Moshe avdo..
The only criterea important..enough to decide which rebbe to follow is Does he bring people closer to hashem...?
every religion has their miracles (dont u read the Readers Digest?)
ok ok
Its Not black and white ya know.
If you saw Harav Pam at a wedding, uhhh I thought hes dead?, yes he is thats the point.
So, if you and all the guests saw rav pam, He walks in looks around, everybody is quiet, some are freaking out, some fainted.
But Rav Pam walks up to you and says " Happy, when you leave the chasuna, a car is goona drive up and give you a million dollars. Give half to tzedaka and invest the rest in stock xyz". Then he turns and walks towards the exit vanishing as he does.
So, is that a miracle?
Will you listen to the instructions?
So If I hear about a rabbi, who said something, that did indeed happen, would I listen and follow the instructions given me when I spoke to him?
I'd be crazy not to.
And if I visited such a rabbi and before I even tell him that I need X, he looks at me and asks how is X, I gotta be real stupid if i dont believe.
Unless I choose to say 'coincidence', i believe and therefore the miracle WILL happen.
Hope I explained myself there.
yingerman,
you are in dangerous territory.
david in the lake points out the very problem.
if you heard of a muslim imam who said something that came true, would you run to him simply becuase it happened?
thats why im arguing here. i believe you need to be skeptical about this, otherwise you will be duped by very good charlatans. and that would be a shame.
remember, your post is titled FANTASTIC AMAZING MIRACLES.
they arent.
i think you admit they arent.
its what you get out of them, or make of them.
Oh that's the whole issue, the title?
That's from an old song my magama,
"It must have been a miracle,
A fantastic amazing miracle from the one and only Hashem."
I just thought it appropro for the post.
Sorry if it gave a shadow that's not supposed to be there.
I thought that I went to a rebbe famous for his brachos being accepted in heaven, so I stood in line and contiplated my life while awaiting entry.
That's what probably gives you the zchus of the broche working in the first place ;)
But you're saying your skeptical of ALL stories?
Say, since Moshe Rabeinu's times?
Happy, first of all, there has to be cloudiness because if everything was proven and clear RIGHT AWAY, there would be no choice but to believe. And so we are given a choice and if we choose to believe, then Hashem shows us miracles because we already made our choice.
s
rigghhht
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